Podcast: Surviving the Holidays

Full Transcript:
Released 12/12/2023

PODCAST OPEN:            
You’re listening to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, created by the Arthritis Foundation to help people with arthritis — and the people who love them — live their best lives. If you’re dealing with chronic pain, this podcast is for you. You may have arthritis, but it doesn’t have you. Here, learn how you can take control of arthritis with tips and ideas from our hosts and guest experts. 

MUSIC BRIDGE 

Pete Scalia: 
Hello, and welcome to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast. I'm Pete Scalia. I'll be your guest host for this episode. And today, we're talking, timely enough, about surviving the holidays with arthritis. 

I know personally, I was diagnosed with pretty severe rheumatoid arthritis when I was 30 years old. I was touring as a musician at the time, and really took a while to get that initial diagnosis, which I know can be a struggle for a lot of people. Fast-forward, working in television, I was able to share my personal journey with arthritis through my friends at the Arthritis Foundation, getting involved at the local level, the national level. And it was my journey to parenthood that ultimately resulted in quite the journey dealing with infertility while managing chronic illness. And that resulted in having both hips replaced, and then 15 months later, both knees, all while in the process of trying to conceive our first child. 

But that sort of led to me founding PSNeverGiveUp and PSNeverGiveUp podcast. Just sort of interacting with other folks that I had met across the country, a lot of them through the Arthritis Foundation (AF). So, it's really an honor for me to be here with everybody, especially in the holidays. I mean, there's no doubt it's one of the busiest times of the year, getting swept up in all of the holiday brouhaha, the traditions. It's fun. It's important. But it can really take a toll on your health if you're not mindful, especially if you're living with one of the more than hundred different forms of arthritis. 

Cooking, decorating, shopping, wrapping gifts, entertaining and visiting with family and friends can be physically and emotionally exhausting. And it usually results in decreased sleep and increased stress. Those are definitely not good things for those of us who live with arthritis. It's both physical and mental. So how do you survive the holidays with arthritis? 

Well, to help us sort of figure that out today, we want to welcome to the podcast, our guest experts today: Corinne Pinter, a JA (juvenile arthritis) mom, and Jenn Ziegler, an arthritis patient and Arthritis Foundation staff member. Welcome to both of you to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast. Corrine, let me start with you. Tell us a little bit of your story and being a JA mom. 

Corrine Pinter: 
Ten years ago was our first AF event, which was a Jingle Bell Run, which is one of my favorite things ever. My daughter, Emily, who's 15 now, was diagnosed at 2. It came about, actually, on her second birthday. She fell off her swing set, and everything was fine that night, but the next morning woke up with a swollen knee, limping. I went to change her clothes and grabbed her hand and she winced. And I thought, "Wow, that's weird." So, I looked at her little fingers and they were puffed up like little sausages. I took her to the ER and they thought she had reactive arthritis, too, possibly a virus, and then followed up with a pediatrician and found out that she has JA (juvenile arthritis). 

About a month later, we were able to get into a rheumatologist right away and get diagnosed and treated. So yeah, we've had many holidays of experience. (laughs) 

Pete Scalia: 
Well, Jenn, let's get to you. And talk a little bit about your journey with arthritis, and how you got involved with the Foundation. 

Jenn Ziegler: 
Sure. I was actually diagnosed at 9 months old with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at the time, now juvenile idiopathic arthritis. And like Corinne, my mom was able to get a diagnosis within months. So, I've had it most of my life. I'm 43 now. I have a 5-year-old, because I also experienced infertility and was planning not to have a child due to my arthritis. But miraculously, I was able to have a child later in life. And I'm very happy and love spending the holidays now with a little one. 

My husband, when we got married, he was not a patient, and he was very supportive of what I was dealing with. So much so, one of the first things we did when we dated was he went to a bookstore and he got a book about arthritis, a book about inflammatory diets and was just really supportive of what I was dealing with. 

Lo and behold, 10 years into our marriage, he was diagnosed with fibromyalgia and spinal stenosis and a couple of other things. So, now he is also a patient and we kind of have to deal and balance together, between the both of us, with doctor's appointments, and taking care of ourselves, taking care of our son. My mother-in-law, with osteoporosis and osteoarthritis, lives with us as well, and so my son is very much attuned to arthritis. And I work at the Arthritis Foundation. He is 5, but he already knows so much more than a 5-year-old should know about the human body. 

Pete Scalia: 
I think between the thee of us here, the different perspectives, living with arthritis ourselves, having an entire home full of folks living with a form of arthritis, and also from the parent perspective, too — I know it's a lot to deal with around the holidays for sure. And I figured we should start with those physical challenges. What do you think are the greatest physical challenges that people with arthritis experience during the holidays? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
I'll say just the idea of getting ready and decorating, and making sure that you go to all the places you need to go, you know: Mom's house, the grandparents' house, all the visits you need to do. All tthe presents you need to buy, all the wrapping you need to do, which I love. Like, I love the holidays. And we love to decorate. We have tons of stuff to decorate for, but the idea of it is kind of overwhelming. But with a 5-year-old, he is very excited for it. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah, definitely a lot of different demands there. Corinne, with your daughter, what do you think the biggest physical challenges have been? 

Corrine Pinter: 
It's funny, because me and her were talking about this yesterday. It's interesting to hear her perspective as a teenager because she can be more attuned to her body and her physical demands, and the physical need that she needs to take care of herself now. But when she was younger, it was hard, because kids want to do everything. They want to run and play and wrap and Santa and parties and everything. And you know, as a parent, it was hard, because we have to manage the holiday ourselves. But then a child with a chronic illness, there's a lot that goes into it, you know? 

If it's medications and if it falls on days of parties, or after parties, or if it's too much activity at the party, they're going to be tired later on or the next day and might have to miss out on things. So, it's just kind of logistically knowing limits when they're younger. That was kind of the hardest thing, because the first year, you don't know. But then, as they get older, and as the condition changes, you have to be flexible. 

I think that's one of the biggest things: just the flexibility of knowing that while we have these ideas of picture-perfect holidays, the reality is that they might not be. And that's OK. You just have to make them good for that day, and then go to the next day. And that's, I think, one of the biggest things, to get ready for anything, was just knowing that things can change, and that's OK. And just do the best you can that day. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah, and I know, too, like along those lines of the physicality of it all, I mean, sure, there are things like putting up the decorations. I know with what my kids call "Daddy's special hands," it's challenging enough. Or, you know, when your feet don't go the direction, getting on a ladder, it makes it even that much more exciting to try to hang up some kind of lights or garland and that kind of thing. 

The fatigue, too. Like you mentioned, Corinne, that's something that really hits you. When you're kind of already tired to begin with, and then you have those demanding holiday schedules. There's no doubt that that can really add up. What sort of things do you do to overcome those obstacles? And what has your daughter done? And how have you helped her sort of overcome those things? 

Corrine Pinter: 
The biggest thing, I think, as she's gotten older, is just kind of knowing the cost and benefit of activities, whether it is putting up the decorations… As a parent, you might have a timeframe in mind, but that might not be it, you know? And that's OK. Have them help with things as long as they can and want to, you know? 

It's again just the flexibility. Emily was even saying, too, like, if there's certain things that kids want to do with their friends, or with family, or something, let them. They are going to get tired, and they're maybe going to hurt. And sometimes, the missing out of it is actually worse than actually the pain they go through the next day, let's say, or that evening. 

And that was really insightful of her to say that, too. She's like, "I never really went ice skating and did those things. It's not because you didn't want me to. It's because I felt like it was going to hurt me so much. But I wish I would have done it. Like, I'm going to hurt either way." And I thought, "Wow." Like, that was a big kind of moment. Let them do things. And just kind of preparing, knowing that you're going to have some downtime. You're going to have to be attuned to their needs. You yourself, as a parent: Let the control go a little bit. It's OK. Everyone wants to have a good time. (laughs) 

Pete Scalia: 
Right. 

Corrine Pinter: 
Whatever that looks like. It might be with a warm blanket on the couch, watching a movie. It might be hot packs, cold packs, warm baths. That may be your day, and that's OK, you know? 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. Jenn, how about you? How do you manage and sort of cope and overcome those physical realities that you have to deal with? 

Jenn Ziegler:  
Since I've been living with arthritis my entire life, it's hard for me to actually know any difference. Like, yes, I'm fatigued; yes, I hurt. But that's kind of all I know. I do remember being a teenager, just hearing Corinne talk about it, like wanting to do all of the things, and wanting to keep up with my friends, and knowing that there would be a consequence to do all of that. And my mom never put limits on what I could do, and (laughs) she tried. But I would push myself. And I internalized a lot of the things I was dealing with, because I wanted to feel normal and do all the things. 

But my mom could tell. And she was the one that would wake up early in the morning before I had to go to school, run the warm bath, and do all the things. And I knew what I had to do to be able to keep up with everybody and do the things that I wanted to do. And I just think I have that mentality now, that resilience. I kind of hate that word, but (laughs) I have that. So, I feel like I can keep up now with all the things that I want to do. But just know timing it. 

A lot of people decorated this past weekend because it was Thanksgiving. It's kind of tradition. Knowing that, I would love to do that, too, but that's just too much. So, it's OK to do it later. Before having a kid, I was very much into the holidays and decorating. But then Jingle Bell Run came around. I started getting involved with the Arthritis Foundation, and I love to do it. It's such a fun event. But also there's that balance. One time, I woke up getting ready to go to Jingle Bell Run, and I just hurt, and I was stiff, and it was really cold outside. So, I made the call of not going, because I just knew the consequence outweighed the benefit of going, so I skipped it that year. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah, you have to be able to call inaudible, especially... We love the Jingle Bell Run, but you get the varying weather conditions, and for folks with arthritis, it can definitely be challenging. As a dad, that sort of thing that you look at, the sort of frustration of not necessarily being able to do everything you want to do to the level that you would like to do it, and being willing to accept those limitations. And the Jingle Bell Run has actually been sort of a great outlet for my three kids to interact with other people, like their dad, who live with arthritis. And kind of know why we go to that event and have so much fun, and wear the costumes, and jingle, and share in that experience. 

I know that's one of the big things for me, is just sort of that… It's not really acceptance, but you have the frustration that comes along from your limitations. But at least recognizing those and being able to find workarounds. I know personally I've found that really helpful. We sort of touched on: Everybody wants to have that sort of like Norman Rockwell-style picture of the perfect holiday interactions, which, of course, anytime you're together with family, sometimes it's anything but perfect. 

PROMO: 
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Pete Scalia: 
How do you keep your sanity and peace and harmony, all of the things that we need to sort of re-find our center again? How do you manage to do that, Corinne, around the holidays, with so much happening? 

Corrine Pinter: 
I think you surround yourself with people who understand, right? And you give yourself grace a lot. You have to. You just have to know that some days your best is not the picture-perfect best. It's like you're surviving. Like we've made it through it. It could be a flare. Just keeping the peace, whatever that looks like. I mean, the word normal and normalcy, we all have our words, right? And like, resilience bothers you. Normal bothers me, because our normal is very different than every… 

And you understand that, Peter. We have expectations. We want it to be amazing. No one is doubting that one bit. But just knowing that if you're still creating the memories, and you're still putting the effort in, and you're still showing up, it could be 10%. That 10% is better than zero, right? 

Pete Scalia: 
Right. 

Corrine Pinter: 
If it means not going to everyone's house, that's fine. If it means switching up and saying, "Hey, can you guys come here instead?" Or, you know, just the flexibility. I think that is the biggest thing of the disease in general and setting realistic expectations. Realistic meaning you can actually do them, and attain them, and check, you know? And if you could do more, cool. If you can't, hey, at least you checked off your little box. And you feel accomplished, right? 

Pete Scalia: 
Right, right. And Jenn, I mean, all of these things that you deal with is your normal anyway, that you've known your whole life. So, how do you sort of find your center with all the craziness going on? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
Sometimes you have to be selfish and put yourself first. It's taken me a while to learn that, because I am a people-pleaser, and I want everyone to be happy and enjoy life and be positive. I like to look on the bright side of things. But putting yourself first isn't bad, and you just have to sometimes do that. 

When my son was 6 months old, around the holidays, and I was flaring really bad, we did the bare minimum. And my family was totally understanding because, obviously, they had seen me my whole life dealing with it. And looking back, it was an amazing holiday time of just enjoying what was happening in the moment, and not feeling like we had to do all of the things. 

Pete Scalia: 
When you look back over the years then, Jenn, and with different things that have happened, is there anything that maybe, like now, you can look back and it's kind of funny? Maybe at the time, though, it wasn't so funny, that maybe was related to your arthritis and the holidays? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
That's a good one. I remember a lot of holidays being sick with just regular cold, flu, whatever it might be. I think when my body experienced breaks, from school, from the stress of things, of just normal… And I'm sorry, Corinne, normal life for everyone. (laughter) It was time for it to overreact to whatever, and I would be sick. And so, looking back, I remember a lot of holidays laying on the couch and just having to… My body forced me to slow down, and it happens now, too. When I take time off of work, I always know something's going to happen. Or might happen. 

Pete Scalia: 
Right. 

Jenn Ziegler: 
And so, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, but you know, it does force me to take a break, and that's OK. And that's when I realized it's OK to put myself first, be selfish and accept what the day looks like. You can make the most out of the holidays from the couch, or from running around and doing all the things, you know? It's what your perspective is, whatever it might be. And while we're dealing with arthritis, and the physical/emotional toll of it, people are also dealing with their own arthritis, quote-unquote. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah, exactly. 

Jenn Ziegler: 
So, it made me feel like everybody has their thing, no matter what it is, and everyone's tolerance to things is different, too. It's perspective. 

Pete Scalia: 
Corinne, what about you? Some of the maybe funniest challenges or things that have happened around the holidays. 

Corrine Pinter: 
Emily is the middle of three. My oldest right now is 17. She's a senior in high school, Emily's a sophomore and then my youngest is 12, so he's in seventh grade. And it's just thinking, like you said Jenn, the normalcy, like just looking at what our normal is, is just not the normal of everybody else, which is OK. I kind of prefer it, actually. We're more quiet. My mom comes in from out of town. We've lived here in Texas for the past, oh, 18, almost 19 years, and my husband's family is from out of state. 

And it was like having, you know, presents shipped in and different stuff like that, and just all the things. But just kind of thinking of what the wants and needs of the kids were, right? Like, this one wants a bike, and this one wants a skateboard, and this one wants a computer, and this one wants a whatever. Emily wanted a heating blanket one year. An electric blanket. Like, cool (laughs). She still uses it. 

Pete Scalia: 
Right? 

Corrine Pinter: 
She wants a bigger one this year, but I laugh, because it's like, even the Warmies, you know? The warm-up animals, that now, looking at it, we do laugh at it, because she's like, "Oh my God, I need a new one." And that's just the normalcy of it, but it's so funny, because I think, too, her siblings will laugh. We were laughing about it this past week, like Black Friday. She was like, "Are any on sale?" (laughs) Right? 

Pete Scalia: 
You know what she wants, what she needs, that kind of stuff. 

Corrine Pinter: 
(laughs) Yeah. 

Pete Scalia: 
I always remember that, as a kid, that heart-sinking feeling of dropping an ornament and then watching it shatter on the ground. And now, as an adult, as a dad, and with hands that have changed, and every once in a while, your grip isn't so great. But I've found that making a nice swap to the plastic ornaments, was like a game-changer in our house. (laughs) Because in that way, even the kids, with their little hands, like if they're trying to hang, you know? That way, if one falls on the ground, it doesn't necessarily shatter all over the place. 

PROMO: 
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Pete Scalia: 
I know another big thing around the holidays, whether it's Thanksgiving or going around Christmas, all the different holidays, is food. And trying to maintain healthy habits, not just with what you eat, but I mean, you know, also making sure you get enough rest, and trying to work in exercise and things, too. And not to mention, if you do any other therapies along with that. How do you manage to sort of maintain those aspects of living with arthritis, while also doing all of the things holiday-related? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
You just make it part of your everyday life. So, when it comes to my arthritis, and I tell this to parents, especially when they have newly diagnosed kids: Make all the extra things just part of your normal, everyday life. Schedule time every day, and even if there's nothing to do, you know you still have that cushion if you need to call the doctor's, you need to call the pharmacy, you need to call the insurance. So, all of that stuff. 

I've gotten pretty good at being able to just do everything I need to do when it comes to my arthritis. So, I kind of look at the holidays in the same way, of just scheduling what I need to do. And yeah, if I push it back a week, that's OK. It's not a huge deal. And if it takes us longer to clean up the holidays than others, that's OK, too. Nobody's judging you for keeping your holiday stuff up for a month extra. 

Just make it feel as part of life as possible, and knowing that things can be unexpected, you know? Something could happen when it comes to arthritis or change of plans of holidays and everything that is going on. And go with the flow. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. And Corinne, do you have any sort of pattern or secret that you've picked up on over the years to help you sort of stay on track with all of those things during the holidays? 

Corrine Pinter: 
Yeah, especially when they get out of school, like Jenn even said, it's a nice release and break, of just kind of like their bodies can just relax. I was telling Emily, I said, "Yeah, when you were younger, it was easier, because when you were younger, you get up and you eat breakfast, and you do a little whatever, and then you have lunch." You kept a routine, especially in the younger years. As she's gotten older, just kind of giving her the autonomy and sense of like, "Hey, you know your limit. Don't overdo it to where you're going to be down and out for a few days but do what you're comfortable with." But, too, keeping the medication schedule, keeping extra comfort measures on hand.  

It's just like Jenn said. If it's part of your regular day-to-day, it's not really too far off. Yeah, you forget things, and yeah, you get into a different stage of life, or if you're in a flare, or medication changes. I know one year we had a medication change around the holidays and it was really, like, keeping up with side effects, and keeping up with nausea or making sure she ate. Like, that, too. I mean, yes, we have all the treats and all the parties, and all the everything. Like everybody, just moderation. When they're younger, of course, they're going to want to indulge, and be wild and crazy, and get everything. 

But we're conscious and mindful. I think the biggest thing is just keep to your routine. Keep to your regulars. Keep to your medicines. Keep to your rest times, you know? Plan that in. If you know you're going to go different timing of your day, and it's going to be a little bit more exhaustive, have an easier evening, you know? Or if you know you're going to have a busy week, have a lighter weekend. 

A lot of forethought, I think, goes into it, and pre-planning. I think sometimes we get too caught up in the moment of the holidays that we forget about that. But like Jenn said, too: Selfishly, we have to worry about ourselves and our kids, and just make sure that you want it to be enjoyable. So, it might be dialing it back a little bit sometimes and amping it up when we can. And just kind of go day by day. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. Well, and I like how you both said, just making sure you stick with that schedule. But of course, at the tail end of the holidays, I mean, you start making New Year's resolutions. That always seems to be on my list, is try to be more organized and be more scheduled. And make sure that I do make that time to make sure that I'm sleeping enough or exercising enough. It makes it easy to buy us gifts. Comforting gifts are always good. Like you said, whether it's the Warmies, the blankets, always a good choice. 

PROMO: 
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Pete Scalia: 
I know we also, before recording the podcast, threw some questions out on social media, and I figured I'd share some of these responses with both of you and see how you relate to these. We asked folks on social media: "What are your greatest challenges during the holidays, and how have you overcome them?" And Diane J. commented, "I've learned to keep expectations on myself. Pre-RA and all that goes with it, I did everything creative. And fast-forward to 2023." She says she's “keeping it as simple as possible. Full disclosure,” she writes. "Nobody but me really cares, LOL." So, I know that we kind of talked about that, like it's OK to focus on you, right Jenn? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
Yeah. Kind of a funny related story. So, we were going to a wedding last December, for family, and you know, everyone wanted to wear pretty holiday wear, and it was going to be outside. I was like, "Oh my gosh, what do I wear?" Because I want to be warm, but I want to look pretty. And then my mother-in-law, same thing, and we bought her these shoes that were decent, comfortable, but not maybe the prettiest. (laughs) 

And she was like, "I don't want to wear those. Those are kind of ugly." And I finally said, "You know what, Mom?" I call my mom-in-law Mom, because we're close like that. I said, "No one's looking at your shoes." I had to take my own advice. It was someone else's wedding. It wasn't my wedding. Just wear whatever. (laughs) You know? 

Pete Scalia: 
Absolutely. 

Jenn Ziegler: 
Nobody's looking at you. 

Pete Scalia: 
Go with comfort, no doubt. Most able-bodied people at their weddings, and the brides in particular, they're switching into sneakers by the end of the night anyway. So, go with whatever's comfortable. I know Maureen C. commented, she said, "So many extra tasks in addition to regular obligations, a drain on energy, time and comfort," that we just mentioned. She said she “breaks down needed activities into smaller blocks and allows more time to complete activities, paying attention to how I'm feeling, take breaks when needed, watching the carb, fat, sodium intake." Also, Maureen said she “tried to be realistic when it comes to personal limitations and then delegating and modifying those traditions as needed.” 

So, Corinne, that's kind of like in your wheelhouse, right? Over the years with Emily, have you found that as long as you can sort of break these things down into little compartments, it makes it easier to manage everything? 

Corrine Pinter: 
It does. And I talked to her about that, and she said, too, especially like we talked about shopping, and wrapping presents, and different things like that and, you know, the tasks. And it was funny, because I said, "Well, you know, now we do so much online shopping." She goes, "That is not the same." And I'm like, "Well, yeah. Like, it, you're buying it." She goes, "No. To go look and all the things and stuff like that." And I was like, "Well, you're right." And she said, too, "Planning ahead, like your mall trip, or your Target trip, or something like that, not just playing around in there for an hour or two, just looking around." She was like, "No, if we have a list, it's a list." And it's true. You can still accomplish what you need to do but be meaningful and mindful of it. 

And then another thing she was talking about, too, was she loves wrapping presents. Loves. But there are times that she's like, "My hands just don't work. They just don't." So, you know, Maureen was right, just delegating or making sure that you can do the tasks. If you can't wrap all the presents in one day, break it down. It'll get done. 

Pete Scalia: 
Right. It's a perfect fallback, too, because I'm horrible at wrapping gifts anyway. I always thought they use some kind of magic, like when you have them do it at the store. They know how to fold it just properly and everything. I'm a big fan of gift bags.  

Throw a little tissue paper in there. You got the gift at the bottom. Good to go. 

Coming from our social media question about greatest challenges and how you have overcome, Brenda J. says, “Decorating and baking.” She said she “had to stop all the wrapping and all the draping of the ribbon and the holly.” She said she has a Santa and nutcracker collection that she does take out and display, that still gives her the feel of Christmas sort of without going all out, without hanging up all the different things. And she said when it comes to baking, which I know is popular with a lot of people, she just decides on one or two things that she really wants to make, and she cut out some of the things that were just too much work. 

Corrine Pinter: 
Yeah, for sure. And that's a big thing, too. Like, we were talking about that with the Christmas cookies, because I remember one year, for my girls, one of the local stores had a baking and cooking and cupcake decorating, and all that. And I remember, I think they were like 7 and 5, they were so excited just to do it. And there were things that Emily couldn't do, but she didn't care, because she could do some of the other things. She couldn't pipe the frosting, but she could sure put the sprinkles on it. 

It's maybe just divvying up the responsibility if you have others that can help you out. But if not, it's OK. Like Jenn even said, make what you like. I'm guilty of that myself. Great if everybody else likes these things, but sometimes, it's just like everybody gets their one thing. We don't have 45 cookies. Maybe we have five, you know? Maybe we go to a bakery and buy something special. A different treat. Change it up sometimes, too. Maybe try something different, or if somebody local can bake for you, that's cool. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. And I know people do want those traditions. Jenn, do you find that maybe some years, maybe you don't do something you did the year before, or maybe you'll adapt the next year, kind of learn year by year? Or does it change?  

Jenn Ziegler: 
It changes, for sure. You mentioned diet and then also baking all this foodstuff. You know, being on certain medications, you're not supposed to drink alcohol. You're not supposed to… Your stomach will be upset, and there's just so much to think about. Sometimes, it's just being able to eat anything is good. 

But when it comes to baking, when I was younger, and my husband was younger, we loved to bake, and we loved to provide goodies to the family. My mom loved to bake and make homemade fudge. But now, like we did, we have picked out two things that are easy to do. I like to make homemade marshmallows. That's not even baking because, literally, the mixer does most of it for you. (laughs) But everyone loves it, because nobody makes homemade marshmallows that I know. 

And it's fun. You can give it with a hot chocolate packet and make it pretty. It just looks so homemade, and you put a ton of effort in it, but you really didn't. So, it's finding the thing that works for you. And that's what works for me. 

Pete Scalia: 
You mentioned shoes and then the consumption of alcohol. And I know for me, I mean at some point, foot reconstruction surgery is going to be on the horizon. But in the meantime, especially around the holidays, I always wear the special shoes so I'm able to get around. But to be honest with you, sometimes with the stumbling or the tripping on stuff, family members probably wonder if I've already hit the eggnog a little too much. (laughter) Or you know, you kind of have like that excuse, if you're, "Oh, sorry about that." You know? "Excuse me." 

I know as we get ready to sort of wrap up this episode here, because I'm sure our listeners are busy, and have things that they need to do. Or maybe they're out doing all the things while they're listening to this. We like to end each podcast with our top three takeaways from our discussion today. Corinne, let me start with you. What would you say might be your top three takeaways from today's discussion? 

Corrine Pinter: 
Especially hearing you both, too, and just relating to myself and my daughters: Be flexible, set some realistic expectations. It's OK if not everything's picture-perfect. It's OK. And just really enjoy it, whatever it is. Whatever the normal looks like, enjoy it. It is what it is. It's our lives and it's fine, and as long as there's a little bit of light and joy in it, I think it's successful, quite frankly. 

Pete Scalia: 
I love that. Sounds good. Jenn? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
I'll say: Be selfish. It's OK to put yourself first sometimes. Adapt to the situation at hand. And surround yourself with people that support you. Corinne said that earlier, and I think that is so important, because they won't put unrealistic expectations on you. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, and the ones who are closest to you would probably know you well enough to know those limitations. I would say my three are actually pretty similar here. I mean, having that flexibility, not just yourself and adapting maybe what you do, but making sure the people around you are also able and willing to be flexible and understanding of what you're dealing with when you live with arthritis. Knowing your limitations and finding maybe creative ways to stay within those. And definitely, as you sort of just touched on again there, too, Jenn, finding your circle, finding those people. 

You know, the holidays, whether you do or don't have family members to spend it with, or just the people that you've sort of let into that circle, that know you, that know the things that you deal with, and then maybe that way, it could be enjoyable for everyone, which is certainly what we want for all of our listeners and for all the folks who are out there living with arthritis. 

I want to thank both of our guests today, Corinne and Jenn. Thank you so much. Any final thoughts you guys would want to throw out? 

Jenn Ziegler: 
One thought, and thank you Pete for hosting. You're amazing. Last thought is do check in with your arthritis friends during the holidays. Some of us do have great circles, but not everybody has that support. And we all have arthritis friends, so just give them a quick call. 

Corrine Pinter: 
Same. This has been fun. Pete, thank you. But yeah, like Jenn alluded to, those parents as well. We're connected as well, so check on each other, but check in with your kids. See how they're doing. 

Pete Scalia: 
That sounds good. Well, we hope everybody listening that your holidays are great. You have a merry Christmas. For myself and the Arthritis Foundation, happy holidays to everyone listening. And PSNeverGiveUp. 

PODCAST CLOSE: 
The Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast is independently produced by the Arthritis Foundation. This podcast aims to help people living with arthritis and chronic pain live their best life. People like you. For a transcript and show notes, go to https://www.arthritis.org/liveyes/podcast. Subscribe and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. And stay in touch!