Resolution Do-Over

Resolution Do-Over Episode 124 Transcript

Released March 4, 2025

 

PODCAST OPEN:      

You’re listening to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, created by the Arthritis Foundation to help people with arthritis — and the people who love them — live their best lives. This podcast and other life-changing resources are made possible by gifts from donors like you. If you’re dealing with chronic pain, this podcast is for you. You may have arthritis, but it doesn’t have you. Here, learn how you can take control of arthritis with tips and ideas from our hosts and guest experts.

 

MUSIC BRIDGE

 

Rob Wicall:

Welcome to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, presented by the Arthritis Foundation. My name is Rob Wicall. I'm your guest host today. And I have been associated with the Arthritis Foundation for going on 10 years now as a board member, as well as I personally have arthritis — ankylosing spondylitis, say that 10 times fast, which is an autoimmune disease. Also, I have a son who has juvenile idiopathic arthritis, so I get to be a caretaker as well. So, arthritis is a large part of our lives and in our family.

 

We're joined today by Dr. Sabrena Jo, who's the director of science and research for the American Council on Exercise. And she's here to share tips and wisdom on how to revive your resolve, stick with your commitments, and exercise and improve your arthritis and overall health, which is important to all of us.

 

I know changing your habits in life is hard. We all know that. For all those well-intended resolutions we make at the new year to lose weight or eat healthier or exercise more, most fall by the wayside by February. So, we're going to talk to Sabrena today about how to not kick that resolution out of your life. Sabrena, first of all, thank you. Welcome today.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Thanks for having me. I'm really looking forward to this.

 

Rob Wicall:

Well, so am I, because this is something that's so near and dear to my heart. So, tell us a little bit about yourself and why you're here today.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yes. I have been helping people with exercise and physical activity my whole career. I have degrees in exercise science, as well as a PhD in the psychology of health and physical activity. And my passion really lies in helping people achieve their movement and fitness goals. And one of the things that occurred to me was that the knowledge of having a good exercise program and staying consistent with it wasn't something that people lacked.

 

What people lacked was the tools or the strategies for the behavior change that it takes to actually stick with an exercise program if it just didn't come naturally to you. In my PhD research, I really did tackle that, the challenge of: We all know we should exercise, but how can we actually be motivated to do it and stick with it?

 

Rob Wicall:

Right. So, tell me a little bit about what are some of the things you learned that are going to help people stay on track?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Humans are so complex, and our motivations come from all different areas. So, it's hard to really pinpoint what makes someone so, you know, in tune to exercise or sports versus someone else. A lot of it has to do with kind of our upbringing, our own physical abilities. What we're taught as we're growing up, how we were treated in school or in PE that really set the stage for what physical activity means in your life. Like, were you made fun of as a child for trying to be physically active and then you just shied away from it? Or were you hurt during exercise and it just made you like, "Oh, exercise really isn't for me because all it's ever brought me is pain."

 

But then you have the other side of the coin where people are, for whatever reason, maybe genetically blessed, and they just have really good genetics that make them good at being physically active. So, early on, they received a lot of attention, positive attention, for doing something that just kind of came naturally to them. What I've learned in helping coach people to become more physically active is that, if a person feels like they have some control, if a person feels like they have the autonomy to do that — because they've got a plan that works for them, or they've got the knowledge and the know-how to do that — they're much more likely to pursue being physically active.

 

The challenges people run into is that they just don't know that there are a variety of options of what it means to do an exercise program or be physically active. They have it in their mind, "Well, do I have to go to a gym and lift weights? Is that the only thing? Because if so, I'm not going to do that. That's not my jam."

 

Rob Wicall:

Interesting. What have you found when you've worked with people that helps them stick to a commitment to exercise? Because, is it more mental that they need positive reinforcement? Or is it that they just need a goal out there and physically they'll hit it?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

My research for my dissertation focused on a theory called the self-determination theory. And it's something that describes motivation and what motivates people to do certain things. There are these three basic psychological needs that, if these are met, people are more likely to really be intrinsically motivated to complete the task. Whether that be physical activity, whether it be taking your medicine, whether it be, you know, quitting smoking, whatever health behavior.

 

And so, those three needs are: autonomy, competence and relatedness. And so, I'll break that down. Autonomy means that people need to feel in control of their actions and their decisions. And one way you do that is you choose exercises that you enjoy, that fit your lifestyle, and you make that a priority. Then you also set your own goals. And those goals have to be specific, and they have to work for you. Something that's achievable and specific when you're setting a goal to help reach that goal. It has to be flexible.

 

You have to treat your physical activity goals and experiences as experiments, because you're not always going to like what you do. And you have to allow yourself permission and the flexibility to adjust to what you're doing, to fit what works for you. That's just the first realm. That's called autonomy. OK?

 

So, the second thing is the confidence to feel capable and effective in what you're doing. Perhaps people have had the experience of walking into a gym where they don't really know all the equipment. They don't really understand how to put together a routine. But yet everybody else in there, they look like they know what they're doing. It can be very humbling. So, you just go in there and tinker around and you don't feel confident. You really don't feel successful.

 

How you combat that is: You start small, and you introduce things slowly and progressively. Feel how that feels in your body. And then decide, "Yeah, this is for me. I want to continue to try to get better at this." And you either track your progress — you can use an app, you can use a journal or you can seek feedback from a professional who can help either develop a program with you or fine-tune what you're already doing.

 

And the last piece, the third piece is the relatedness. And this has to do with feeling connected to others. And it's hugely important. Like a single workout buddy or a group of people who also share your physical activity goal. You have a community that can support you, or a friend, or even a personal trainer, for example, who could support you in your physical activity goal. But you have support and a community that make it more likely that you'll want to return, so that not only you can keep moving, but you can also keep sharing those social experiences. So those are the three needs that I have found.

 

PROMO:

Whenever you need help, the Arthritis Foundation’s Helpline is here for you. Whether it’s about insurance coverage, a provider you need help from or something else, get in touch with us by phone toll-free at 800-283-7800. Or send us a message at arthritis.org/helpline.

 

Rob Wicall:

Just out of curiosity: You go to a gym, and everybody looks like they know what they're doing, even though they're all like you, right? They don't know what they're doing any more than you do. But you get there and if you’re like, “I don't know where to start, I just see a whole bunch of machines,” versus “I’ve brought a plan, I’ve read an article and it says, do XYZ.” How much does that help with the ability to stay on track or to continue to go back? Do you think that plan is like high on that list of what would keep people engaged to come back?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yes. Super important. So yes, competence can be associated with embarrassment, especially if you're doing something in front of people who you don't know, or even if you do know, and you don't want to look like you don't know what you're doing. One of like the top things that you can do to combat feeling that incompetence really is to be successful early and often. And how you do that is: You start small. So, let's say you printed a workout routine out, and you want to go to the gym and you want to try it.

 

If it's a program that really is designed to help people of all levels and skills, then it will tell you at the very beginning, before you even start: Just do the bare minimum. Like maybe do one set, a few repetitions, work through that, and then leave for the day. But let's say that you've got the full program, and let's say it's 10 different exercises, and it's 12 to 15 repetitions of all these different exercises. And they want you to do, let's say, three to four sets of everything.

 

When you're presented with an entire program like that, in order to increase confidence, also decrease injury and decrease the risk of doing too much too soon: Start small. Pick maybe five exercises out of the 10, just do one set. It's always better to do less in the beginning than it is to do too much and then regret it later. Do something small within your ability level and progress slowly.

 

Rob Wicall:

Yeah, that's a good lesson for life in general, I think, right? Like start small, progress and then just be happy with where you're at.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah.

 

Rob Wicall:

I'm going to be me and I'm going to be the best me. And that's OK. I think it's hard to do because everybody feels, whether they're judged or not, they judge themselves.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Of course. And I think it's hard, especially if you're coming back into it after either taking a break or perhaps you're older now. You were very athletic, let's say, in high school or college, but you haven't been in a few decades. And so, you want to get back into it. And you have a memory of what your body used to do. But that was a long time ago. And it doesn't mean it can't do that again. It just means there's a progression to get there. When I first got into helping people exercise in, let's say, the ’90s, the mantra was “no pain, no gain.”

 

Rob Wicall:

Oh yeah.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

That destroyed a lot of people. It's not true. Exercise and being physically active should not hurt. If you are going at it with a mindset of, "Well, I didn't really do anything because I don't feel like a puddle on the floor when I was done," that's not true. Easing back into it and actually feeling energized and stimulated, that's the goal. The goal is not to destroy yourself so that you're not feeling well the next two days after your workout.

 

Rob Wicall:

Yeah. I have always lived by the mantra that I'm going to be consistent. So, there's sometimes that I would go to the gym, push a few weights around, but for whatever reason, whether it's my arthritis or whether it's time constraints, I just don't do a lot. I walk out of that gym, and I consider it success, because I was at the gym no matter what I did. And so, I always felt like that mindset helped me because I'm not upset at myself for not doing 110%, no pain, no gain. So, what I would call that consistency, how does that play into the mentality and what you've learned from that psychological side?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

It plays into it a lot. And that has to do, in my mind, with success: You had a success because you did something. Because you moved. And it's always going to be better doing something versus not; versus just sitting on the couch or being sedentary. Because even the lightest of activities will help with your cardio metabolic health. Even if it's just walking, it will help; versus not doing anything at all.

 

Rob Wicall:

When you don't feel great, obviously with arthritis, with chronic pain in your life, there's limitations due to that. Some days are better, some days are worse. So, can you speak a little bit to how a person… How do they stay consistent even through those chronic pains?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

That's tough, because not only are you dealing with the general non-motivation that a lot of us feel, you're also adding pain on top of that. And that is another layer that can really be difficult, physically and mentally, to overcome. And so, to that I would say being involved in some type of gentle movement is actually a pain reliever.

 

Because moving your body not only produces certain brain chemicals and endorphins that can affect you positively psychologically, it also applies to pain receptors and relieving pain. A lot of times, if you don't feel like moving, or if you're having kind of like a depressive episode, or you're having more pain than usual, it's the last thing you want to do. In fact, you want to avoid it, the movement.

 

But when, in reality, if you do a light session of light physical activity: More times than not, you end up not only feeling better, like your joints feel better, but you do have a little bit less anxiety and perhaps fewer depressive symptoms. If you can do light movement, you will help with pain relief. You'll also help with your, you know, psychology in the moment.

 

Rob Wicall:

Yeah. I've experienced that in my own life, that, with ankylosing spondylitis: If you don't move, your body sort of starts to just tighten up. And there's days when it hurts and I'm like, man, you don't want to move, everything's hurting, my back hurts so bad. But I knew to get over that hump, to get over that pain, I had to stretch and move, right? But it got me over that hump. And if I don't, my body just slowly crumples into, you know, a little cocoon.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah. When I'm helping a client set their movement goals, I'm talking about what they value the most. Sometimes it’s, “I want to do this cool thing,” like “I want to run a marathon.” A lot of times, it’s just, “I want to move pain-free because I want to have a better quality of life, living as pain-free as I possibly can.” If that's the goal and the value that I'm going to place on my movement, if you continue to remember that, that helps you with the autonomy.

 

Because you're choosing to do the stretching, be lightly active. You're choosing to do that to help with the pain because you have the greater goal of a better quality of life. Physical activity is one of those pillars of health that help you lead that better quality of life. When you don't move your body, it tends to like contract and get kind of stiff. Moving your body frees you from that.

 

Rob Wicall:

When you have somebody who maybe is just trying to live a healthy life, right? Just be pain-free. Can you talk a little bit about maybe what that means as far as modifications and how to best manage through all of that?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

You've got to be able to feel your body. Try not to tune out if you're in pain. Try to understand what kind of day you're having. So, if I work with someone who has chronic pain, the first question I always ask is, you know, "How are you feeling today? What's acting up? What's feeling pretty good?" We work within those limits. If you can think about the pain on a continuum, where zero is like no pain and 10 is excruciating pain; if we can work within this three to four level of mild, just under moderate, pain, if we can do movements that don't spike the pain any higher than that three to four, then I think people can feel like they've been successfully active.

 

I think a lot of people don't move because they fear the pain. And so, if we can keep the pain in that manageable low end, people can be OK with that and buy into it. Like, "OK, well I'm kind of dealing with this low level of pain, but if… As long as my movement doesn't exacerbate it any more than it is now, we're good because of all the other benefits that we're going to get from the movement."

 

With specific exercises, always, always, we do a lengthy warmup. We move the body in ways that just get the joints moving without placing additional load or weight on them. We just kind of see how the body's feeling. And then, if we decide today's the day we're going to do a resistance training or strength workout, we start with low load or weight, and then we do movement within a range of motion that, again, doesn't spike that pain into anything more than like a three or a four.

 

Rob Wicall:

Yeah. When I was younger, you just go every day, and you have that energy, and you recover so much quicker. I felt like I could just go at it, go at it, go at it. But now it's like I have to listen to my body so much more. And take those breaks, and do what's necessary for the long term.

 

PROMO:

Movement is the best medicine. But it can be hard when you hurt. Your Exercise Solution is a resource to help you create a customized physical activity routine based on your specific needs and abilities. Learn more at arthritis.org/yourexercisesolution.

 

Rob Wicall:

What advice would you give everybody into making exercise a habit?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

I would say: Number one, you must personalize your experience. Your best exercise routine is not going to look like anyone else's. Choose activities that fit in your lifestyle. For example, if you don't have a gym membership and you don't want a gym membership, if that just kind of turns you off, don't go buy a gym membership. That's probably not going to be the best route for you. Figure out a way that works with your lifestyle, what you like and what you don't like. So, personalization, it has to be number one.

 

If you don't really know what the options are, then work with someone that can help you, that can guide you with, “Here are your options.” Figure out what you value. What are you trying to get out of this? Do you just want to be more active because your physician said that it was a good idea that you become more active? That's a fine goal. But that's going to look different than if you have a goal of a competitive sport, for example.

 

And then lastly, the flexibility in giving yourself permission to try different things and change your mind. It's better than putting all your eggs in that one basket and realizing, "Oh, this just isn't for me."

 

Rob Wicall:

Right. We had social media followers… We asked them a question, got some responses. And so, I want to give some of those responses and get your thoughts to them. So, the question was: What's a resolution you've stuck with and what magical trick kept you on track?

 

Jill Nicole says, “Daily exercise of at least one hour and diet changes. Diet is everything with RA, and movement equals medicine.” Thoughts?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Well, I'm a little bit biased in that I come from the exercise world, so to say that diet is everything, I don't know about that. I would say that, in terms of like the pillars of health, nutrition and physical activity are huge. If people can try to really focus on those two things before they focus on anything else, you're going to see probably the most return on investment for the time and energy spent and focusing on those two things.

 

Rob Wicall:

Next one, That Girl With Arthritis says, "It's so hard! To help, I've been making monthly goals, to help me feel like I can check a goal off and it's working towards my yearly ones." So, thoughts to that?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah. That has to do with the competence and being successful. If you're a person who likes lists or checking things off, this really fits with your type of personality, 100%. But you know, in order to have things to check off of a list, you kind of have to set those goals in advance. So, not only are you goal setting, you’re showing and tracking your success and your confidence toward your goal, which only ups your motivation.

 

You’ve probably heard the term: a process goal versus an outcome goal. The process goal looks something more like, “I did something for 30 minutes five days a week.”

 

Rob Wicall:

I found that, for me, I set a goal, an annual goal of whatever it is. I'm going to do this race, I'm going to do whatever it might be. And then I backtrack for the year to say, "OK, how am I going to get to that goal?" But that's what keeps me moving every year is some… one big goal. But we're all different.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah. And if people have a hard time with, you know, imagining your approach, I think that's where other people that are with you, the support community, that can really help as well. Because maybe it's not necessarily you reverse-engineering an entire year of, you know, working toward your goal. Maybe it's, "Oh, I know that on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I'm going to meet this group of people, and we're going to be active together, because we're all going to agree to be this time and place." And that's kind of your accountability.

 

Rob Wicall:

Yes. Yeah. That is a good word. Accountability, right?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah.

 

Rob Wicall:

Is holding me accountable, to be consistent. And I did love what That Girl With Arthritis said that, you know, maybe I have that big goal, but I set these smaller goals to give myself that pat on my back.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah. Classic goal-setting theory. And kudos to her because, if you can do that and map out that plan, it just reinforces the strength of that goal and the motivation.

 

Rob Wicall:

I think maybe sometimes that's what's lost in these resolutions, specifically with exercise and fitness, is that that value isn't high enough on the totem pole for them to push for that. How do you motivate people to get it higher up on that totem pole?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

That's very tricky. Because, as a coach, I'm approaching this kind of from the health coach side of things when I'm coaching people as well. I cannot motivate someone to do anything. It doesn't come from me; it comes from their own intrinsic or internal motivation. What I do with my clients is: We talk about values, what they want to get out of, not just this exercise program, but life in general.

 

We look at how physical activity can actually help them get there when the days get tough and, when you just don't feel like moving, remembering how physical activity contributes to really where you want to be in a year. If you map out an entire workout program to get you to a performance goal, and then you get injured halfway through, we don't just stop. We readjust. We understand things happen, and then we change the program so that it works for us where we are presently in our life. You adapt.

 

PROMO:

Want to help grow our movement and conquer arthritis as a volunteer? There are lots of ways to get involved with the Arthritis Foundation and make an even greater difference. To get going, check out arthritis.org/volunteer.

 

Rob Wicall:

As we close up shop, I want to ask you sort of your three key takeaways from today. What are those points that you want listeners to take away from our discussion?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Number one: Personalize your routine. Make it personal. Number two: Set your goals according to what you want in your life. And number three: Give yourself permission to fail and then try something new.

 

Rob Wicall:

I love that. I'm going to give you mine. I did like what one of the people said from social media, which is movement equals medicine. There's those times when you don't want to move, and those are the times you really have to move. For someone with chronic disease who's been there many times, you’ve got to get off the couch and you’ve got to move, even though it's the last thing you would like to do. I really did like: Do what you love. Those have to be goals that I really want. And make it what is very personal to you, not what other people say you could do.

 

Then, last was, I am taking from you, but just the permission to be OK with where you are at today. Loving yourself and where you're at. And it's like, "OK, today ain't my day, but you know what? I'm going to do what I can. And that's OK."

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Yeah.

 

Rob Wicall:

And I'll get back to it. But it's hard to do, right?

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

That might be the hardest thing: to give yourself permission. But it's so important.

 

Rob Wicall:

On that note, I would like to give you permission to love yourself and thank yourself for your time here today. You're awesome, Sabrena.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Thank you. (laughs)

 

Rob Wicall:

Thank you so much for your expertise and your opinion and your time today.

 

Dr. Sabrena Jo:

Thank you so much for having me. I hope it helps. I hope somebody finds something useful.

 

PODCAST CLOSING:

The Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast is independently produced by the Arthritis Foundation. Gifts from people like you make our podcast and other life-changing resources possible. You can donate at arthritis.org/donate. This podcast aims to help people living with arthritis and chronic pain live their best life. For a transcript and show notes, go to arthritis.org/podcast. Subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. If you subscribe through Spotify, leave a comment on their platform, letting us know what you think about this episode. And stay in touch