Podcast: Men & Arthritis: Beyond 'Toughing It Out'

Full Transcript:
Released 10/17/2023

PODCAST OPEN:            
You’re listening to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast, created by the Arthritis Foundation to help people with arthritis — and the people who love them — live their best lives. If you’re dealing with chronic pain, this podcast is for you. You may have arthritis, but it doesn’t have you. Here, learn how you can take control of arthritis with tips and ideas from our hosts and guest experts.  

MUSIC BRIDGE 

Pete Scalia: 
Hi. And welcome to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast. I'm your guest host, Pete Scalia. Today’s topic is Men and Arthritis: Tackling the Mental and Physical Challenges. You know, being a guy with arthritis comes with mental, emotional and social challenges, as well as physical ones? Having the sore, stiff joints can get in the way of fulfilling many of the roles that we often associate with men, whether it’s providing for our families, cutting the grass or just hanging with the guys. It can undermine our self-identity, too, and maybe make a guy feel like he's been stripped of his “man card.” But the fact is: Men react to pain and other symptoms differently than women typically do. 

I was diagnosed with arthritis when I was about 30 years old. I work as a television host, former news anchor and a musician. And living with arthritis, I just felt compelled to share my story publicly, both in broadcast and on social media, and got involved with the Arthritis Foundation at the local and national levels. 

And traveling around and hearing people, realizing we had a lot of things in common, I noticed there was sort of this underlying theme of never giving up. And that inspired me to start PSNeverGiveUp, which is a podcast and a social media outlet for folks to share inspiring stories of fortitude, perseverance and inspiration. I wanted to share my story to encourage other people to never give up. And as I mentioned, my interactions through the Arthritis Foundation, being such a strong community, I've met a lot of people. Like today’s guest, Gary Ho. 

Gary has lived with the pain and disability of gout for 16 years before he finally got a correct diagnosis and a treatment starting at age 40. Since then, he's been an active advocate for people living with gout. He's committed to raising awareness of the disease, especially in younger men. Now he and his rheumatologist have co-founded the Gout Support Group of America that works to improve the lives of people living with gout, through education, empowerment and community. So, Gary, thanks for being with us today. 

Gary Ho: 
I am so happy to be here. Thank you. 

Pete Scalia: 
I guess the first question I have… I know for a lot of people living with one of the hundred, more than a hundred, different forms of arthritis … getting that initial diagnosis can really be tricky. Gary, what was that process like for you? 

Gary Ho: 
The process of being diagnosed was really a long and hellish journey for me. My story started in 1994. Gout is a form of inflammatory arthritis. When you think of gout, you think of the term maybe “rich man’s disease.” Benjamin Franklin had the disease. It was usually back in the day, only wealthy people were getting the disease. They were the ones that were able to drink the wine, eat the steaks and live above and beyond, excessively, to get the disease. Nowadays, you know, we get it through genetics. We get it through just life here. 

At the age of 24, in 1993 or ’94, I was walking across campus. I was in college. And I felt a strange feeling in my ankle. It felt like I sprained my ankle, I didn't think much about it. And then I went home that night, and my ankle started to swell up. And it got to the point where I thought I had broken my ankle. It was just a sharp pain, and it was relentless. 

So, I called my dad up. And I remember telling him: "It's, Dad, so strange. I'm walking across campus, and I'm experiencing this horrendous pain." And he says, "Gary, you, you might have gout. I have gout. It kind of runs in the family." And that was the first time I heard the term gout. And he says, "Gary, you should go to a doctor and tell them that gout runs in the family and see what they say." And that was my journey in trying to get diagnosed. And, that first meeting was not fun. 

Pete Scalia: 
When you initially went to the doctor, how did you describe your symptoms? And was there something that led you to believe that it was more than maybe just like a sprain or something? There was like a lot of swelling, or what did you notice? 

Gary Ho: 
Well, yes, there was swelling. It was a sharp, “jabby” pain. I can only describe it like… When a gout attack comes on, it feels like there's a thousand tiny little men inside your joint with a pitchfork trying to jab their way out. And when I say it's relentless, that's what I mean. 

When you go to a back doctor, and they ask, "Hey, describe the pain," you know? "Is it dull or is it sharp?" I can tell you this is sharp, and it's acute. It's like someone sticking a needle right into that joint, and they're just twisting. And that's how I felt. And that's not normal, right? 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. 

Gary Ho: 
And I'm trying to figure out what I did. And there was nothing I did that could explain the pain. So, it was a bit of a mystery. 

Pete Scalia: 
I know that getting that diagnosis can be difficult. You go from experiencing the pain. You meet with your doctor, and you're explaining it. Ironically, when I first started feeling symptoms when I was 30, it was in my feet. I had, like, a few things here and there… But it was one morning, I woke up, and when I went to stand up and get out of bed, it was actually the balls of my feet hurt so bad. I fell back onto the bed. 

And initially, when I went to my primary care physician at the time, she thought it might have been gout. So, it was kind of going through, "OK, well, let's test for this. Let's test rheumatic factor." That sort of thing. How long did it take, from you describing these symptoms to actually get that diagnosis? Because I know that can be the toughest part sometimes. 

Gary Ho: 
It was. It was not fun. It took me 16 years to get this diagnosed. Insane, right? Thinking back, I'm flabbergasted. At 24, I experienced the pain. I went to the doctor. Gave him all the signs. You would think, you know, it's genetics. It runs in the family. You can see signs of it on my ankle. It's swollen. It's kind of red, it’s hot. Right? I remember him looking at me and saying, "Gary, you are way too young to have gout. Gout is an old person's disease. You don't have gout." And I still remember the feeling I had. I actually was overjoyed. I was like, "Yes, Dad, you're wrong. I don't have gout." 

I must have done something. But, you know, when people that live with gout, when the pain comes on, it doesn't matter what you do. With time, the pain actually will subside, and it'll go away. And so, with time, the pain went away. Out of sight, out of mind, when the pain went away, I just kind of went on with life. But still, during the 16 years, with gout it's a progressive disease, so when you don't treat it, it actually will come back. And each time it comes back, and the flare comes on, it's even worse than the previous attack. 

Over the years, it became progressively worse. And each time I would experience an attack, I would go see a doctor. I would go see the ER. I would just, you know, insist, "I think I have gout." But I was told over and over again that I did not have gout. And it wasn't until 2010 that — I went from 24 to now I'm 40 years old — and I'm using crutches, and I'm using a wheelchair. And I remember being at rock bottom — emotionally, physically. I was thinking, "I can't go on. I need to do something. I need to figure out what this is." 

I went and looked up gout. And I found out that a rheumatologist is really the expert that deals with gout. I made myself an appointment. At that time, I finally had TPO, you know, a type of insurance that would allow me to bypass the gatekeepers that were keeping me away from my diagnosis. And when I sat down in his office, Pete, in the first 10 minutes, my rheumatologist just said, "Hey, Gary, tell me about your journey." I spent 10 minutes telling him my journey. He says, "Gary, I think you have gout, and it's real easy to diagnose." That was the beginning. 

Pete Scalia: 
I kind of go back, too, to when I was diagnosed with RA about 20 years ago, and it seems like that mindset, maybe it's kind of shifted a little bit. I don't know if there's maybe been more in the education side. Because I know that, even for myself, I remember a doctor telling me, "Wow, aren't you awfully young and male to have rheumatoid arthritis?" And they couldn't really believe that that's what it was. And same thing in your situation. It seems like maybe now there's more of an awareness and that accessibility to rheumatologists who can properly give us that diagnosis. 

Gary Ho: 
I think so. And that's part of why the Gout Support Group of America exists, right? After living pain-free now for five years… It's 2015. I've been diagnosed with chronic gout. And all it took, Pete, was a simple blood test. It was a $20 test that I couldn't get. And when I got it, I found out that my uric acid level, which is very important for people living with gout, it was north of 10. Anything over 6.8, it's known as a saturation point. That's the point where the body is so saturated with uric acid that it starts creating crystals, which look like little, tiny needles around the joints. And that's the jabbing feeling that you feel. 

And so, going and being diagnosed, they saw that my uric acid was north of 10. And he immediately came up with a game plan for me. I went through a clinical trial for a medication. I learned about proactively managing gout versus reactively managing gout. I basically took my health into my hands, and I became an advocate for myself. No longer was willing to trust what the doctors would say. I mean, I did my research. I consulted with experts. I just wasn't shy about asking for a second opinion. 
 
When you talk about education, it's truly, truly right. I find that maybe about 80% of the general practitioners out there don't know enough about gout, so they don't have the confidence to prescribe the medication that is necessary to manage this disease. They actually will push it back on what I call reactive management. They'll treat the pain and the symptoms of the disease instead of the cause. And they typically will send you away with a pamphlet that says what to eat and what not to eat, which, I don't know if they realize this, but then now they put the fault on to the person. "Hey, it's your fault that you have gout." 

Pete Scalia:  
Right. 

Gary Ho: 
When, in reality, it's not. 

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Pete Scalia: 
Gary, let's go back a little bit here. You were talking about when you were first experiencing these symptoms when you were 24, then by the time you're 40, you get that diagnosis, which is good, right? You know what you're dealing with. You know that you have options on how you could treat it. During that time, though, since gout, like rheumatoid arthritis, like a lot of these different forms of arthritis, can be an invisible disease, how did this affect you when it came to, like I'm assuming… Were you dating at the time? How did it sort of affect you personally? Aside from the physical pain, you know, emotionally — it takes a toll on you, too. 

Gary Ho: 
That is such a great question, Pete. When people think about gout, we think about the physical pain because it's very painful. But beyond the physical, beyond the joint, there's an emotional side that it affects the person mentally, right? There are mental issues that come along with it. For young people that are affected with gout, I would dare say that it affects them. The stigma of gout, which is real, the stigma of gout affects younger people more so than any other groups of people in America. 

When you're young, you're active. I’m 24, I am like then in college. I'm starting my life. I'm dating. I want to hang out with friends. I want to go have a beer. I want to go to concerts. You know, do all the things. But yet, here I am. I think I have gout; I can’t get diagnosed. But thank God, because, even if I had a diagnosis, I don’t know how I would have even felt. Do I accept the fact that I have an “old man’s disease,” like an old person’s disease? Do I want to be categorized in that group? There's a lot that goes on mentally for people with gout, especially young people living with gout. 

Pete Scalia: 
With my experience, too, Gary, when I first met my now wife, I had been diagnosed about a year or two before I met her. And it was very interesting because of the cocktail of medications I was on. I was never a big drinker anyway, but I couldn't drink. But it was an interesting thing because there was an age dynamic that came into play there. When we met, I was 32, she was 23, and having this sort of invisible disease. I told her that I had rheumatoid arthritis. That's why I wasn't drinking or taking part in any of that kind of stuff. 

And that also like kind of made me go through, "Oh, my gosh, I went through this like almost 10 years ago. Do I really want to go through all this kind of stuff again?" But it was interesting how it affects you, like in a social way, whether it's the treatments or whether you're just dealing with that pain on a regular basis. What was that like for you when it came to relationships? Were you open with the fact that "Hey, I have this, and it affects me?" Were there signs that you felt like you had to explain it to friends or maybe to love interests or anything? 

Gary Ho: 
Yeah. So, I actually married young. I was married at 24, basically when I experienced my gout attack. My then wife was very understanding. It wasn't the issue with my then wife. It was the issue with my bros, my friends, you know? When you’re hanging out with your boys and your group of friends, they can be harsh, right? 

Pete Scalia: 
Right. (laughs) 

Gary Ho: 
In a loving way, you know, they can be harsh. They called me gimpy. I remember “Gimpy Gout Boy” was another nickname that I had. Trying to keep up with them sometimes on crutches, you know. I’ve got to say, people that suffer with arthritis and gout, we can handle pain. They don't understand the pain that we go through. So, we're hobbling around just trying to do life. But the sympathy that you get from people within your age group, there's lack of empathy, right? 

Pete Scalia: 
Oh, absolutely. I can relate to that. I've shared on blogs and things through the Arthritis Foundation and PSNeverGiveUp, sharing my journey and the time when we wanted to become parents. That meant getting off a lot of medications for me. And since it took longer than we thought, it would… There were noticeable changes to my appearance. And with my job, it wasn't something that I could hide. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to be very open with that journey. 

But, oh my gosh, my friends… When we didn't know what was causing all of the… There was like a lot of water weight gain from all the steroids that I was on. Trying to mask everything that was happening to me, looked physically different. That's definitely a thing, though. Friends, even those closest to you, they can be relentless. 

Gary Ho: 
They're relentless. They're the ones that are the most harsh on you. It's funny that you mentioned the medication and the side effects. Because for 16 years, I was being treated, and treated myself with over-the-counter medication. Or I would go to the ER and the only thing they would really give me is steroids or something that would take care of the inflammation, but the side effects were bad. 

I am a 5'10". I weigh 175 now, fit. But back then, I was 225. And my face was probably twice the size that you see now. And so, if you can imagine, my skin was bad because of just the steroid again. Everything was just breaking out, everything. Like my levels. To be healthy, you need your levels within your body to be where it needs to be. And it felt like every single level in my body was off. I had pictures of before and after, and it is pretty amazing. You can see darkness before in my face, where I just wanted to give up. And I found myself again, you know? Now I'm back to that 23-year-old kid, you know? 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. 

Gary Ho: 
Happy as can be. (laughs) 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. And it's funny. I mean, I was just looking at some old pictures of myself, too, and it's like, when I was getting started, working in TV and stuff. And I'm six feet tall. Well, I've had my hips and knees replaced, so my height has changed over the years. I was kind of hoping maybe I could get, like, you know, the go-go gadget adjustable. (laughter) Maybe if I was picking up a game of basketball or something. But it's interesting, when you go back and you look. And I was the same sort of thing. I went from like 180 to, being on the steroids, getting up to 235. 

And then after the knee replacement surgery, dropping down to like 135. And that's kind of like when my wife stepped up, and she said, "Well, listen, you can't weigh less than I do. That's going to be a problem." It's interesting to look back. And like you said, you kind of rediscover yourself, right? You kind of find who you are when you're going through all these difficult times. How do you think that sort of shaped your outlook and who you are today? 

Gary Ho: 
I've always been an optimistic person. I felt like I lost that person during the 16 years’ journey, trying to get that diagnosed. And when I received the diagnosis, I received hope. You know, everybody needs hope. It's really the honest truth. When it comes to gout, so many people that start the journey with gout, they feel like this mountain is such a big mountain to climb. “I've been in pain for so long, and I’ve been struggling for so long. I've been feeling isolated for so long. I don't know how I'm going to be able to get out of this.” 

I was talking with one of our volunteers within the Gout Support Group of America, and he was saying, “Gary, you know, maybe it took some people, it took 25 years for them to journey through the woods, and they've been lost in the woods. And it's not overnight that you're going to exit the woods, right? It's going to take a little bit of time.” 

But once you've identified hope, or you get the diagnosis, and they tell you have gout… I have to tell you, there is no better time to have gout than it is now, in the period that we live in, because gout is treatable. You actually can have a quality of life with gout. There are no cures for gout, but if you understand the disease and you understand what is causing the flares, you can actually tackle this disease and manage it in a way that you have quality of life. 

Pete Scalia: 
And that's the irony, too. I mean, when you're talking about no better time than now, I know the only other experience, in my case with rheumatoid: My grandmother had a sister who had rheumatoid arthritis, but she was diagnosed maybe in the 1940s when they were like, “Well, here's this amazing breakthrough thing called aspirin.” Or they would tell you, “Well, hey, it hurts when I do this.” “Well, then don't do that. Don't move.” 

And then, of course, you're dealing with like fused joints and that sort of thing. But aside from the treatments and things, too, Gary, I mean, as ironic as that sounds, again, coming back to: This is the best time to have that diagnosis. I know support is a big part of that. And I know that's what led you to found your support group for other people who are living with gout. How did you initially find other people to relate to and to be able to talk to? Because it can be incredibly isolating, as you said. 

Gary Ho: 
It's isolating, and it's lonely, and you feel misunderstood. So, in 2015, I was doing some reflection. I was just thinking back on my journey. And at that point, I'd been five years pain-free. And I was thinking, “Wow, this is great.” And I had a conversation with my rheumatologist. And I said, “Hey, Chris, you know, during my journey, before I met you, it was so dark, it was so lonely. Do you remember the look on my face when I came in to meet you? You know, there are so many other people like myself. And I don’t think there’s a support system out there, Chris, for people living with gout.” And he says, “I don’t think so.” And I really looked at him, and I said, “We need to start a support group. We need to start something.” 

At the time, I was living in Austin, Texas. And I remember him and I, we picked a weekend, I think it was just a Sunday, in his office. We bought some coffee. We got some donuts. We put some ads in the local newspaper. And I think our first meeting, we had like 10 people. It was basically five wives forcing their husbands to come along. And the husbands, you know, are there enjoying the free donut and not really talking. We were just talking about gout to make it accessible to people and say, “It's OK to have gout.” 

Gary Ho: 
That was the start. And from there, we took it online. And we called ourselves the Gout Support Group of Austin. We wanted to focus on Austin. And then it kind of grew. And from there, we became the Gout Support Group of America. We currently have almost 16,000 members on Facebook. And we're really focused on education, empowering people that live with gout, through methods of managing gout that's FDA-approved and scientifically based. So, we're very specific on what we do. 

PROMO: 
Whenever you need help, the Arthritis Foundation’s Helpline is here for you. Whether it’s about insurance coverage, a provider you need help from or something else, get in touch with us by phone toll-free at 800-283-7800. Or send us a message at arthritis.org/helpline. https://www.arthritis.org/helpline.  

Pete Scalia: 
When you look back at your younger self, what would you tell yourself, Gary? In the years, obviously with age comes wisdom, experience, having lived with gout this long. What would you tell that young man who was going through that really dark time? 

Gary Ho: 
I would have told him that it’s OK to have gout. Don’t look at it as a negative thing. We’re all dealt with cards in our life. “These are the cards that you're dealt with, Gary. Live with that and find a way to move forward.” Secondly, I would say, “Find the courage. If deep down, you have a gut feeling that this is what's going on, hey, find the courage to ask for a second opinion. You are the only person that will be able to advocate for yourself. No one else will. You have to stand up.” I think things would have been very different for me. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. Well, hopefully you can have that impact on other people, on young people, that are going through something similar with that diagnosis. I have to ask, too: So, how have you been able to manage your gout now? How are you dealing with the pain? Because I know that, I mean, again, as a guy, you try to hide these things. And maybe we don't try to be as macho as maybe we used to, right? When I hear the word macho, I think of somebody like Tom Selleck, the big mustache or whatever. (laughter) 

You try to sort of keep it to yourself. I know that kind of plays into these being invisible diseases, and you're dealing with that pain and stuff. How are you managing right now? 

Gary Ho: 
I manage my gout fine. It's been 13 years, and I've been pain-free for the entire time. I will foreseeably be pain-free. I don't foresee having a problem. When it comes to gout, it's very scientific in the fact that if you can measure your uric acid level, you can basically determine if you're about to experience a flare or not. So, there's no cure for gout. And then gout, like I think you mentioned earlier, gout is very secretive. 

Gout's like a ninja. They sneak up on you. When you think it's not doing anything, it's planning, it's sitting there. It's just waiting for an opportunity to hit. So, you don't give gout an opportunity. You do everything you can to lower your uric acid level. The key is to keep it below six. My rheumatologist came up with a great saying. He says, “Gary, if it's over six, you need a fix.” That's basically it, right? If it's over six, you need a fix. 

And I say, for people living with gout, I would offer hope. I would say, “Hey, listen, go find yourself a trustworthy medical professional who can partner with you and journey with you. This is about a journey. You're going to walk with this person.” Gout is not going anywhere. Until we find a cure, we're going to wake up every day and say hello to gout. And we’re going to say, “Hello, get behind me. I take my medication religiously every morning, and I continue with life.” 

Pete Scalia: 
I love that. And, you know, again, spreading that message of hope. And I know that that's something the Arthritis Foundation likes to do, too. I know that I've sort of met a community, in particular, since we're talking about men with arthritis, other guys who are going through that same thing, how it affects our day-to-day life. I know with me, even though symptoms are treatable, like you said, I know that it's something that I will live with for the rest of my life, and varying degrees of pain and ability. 

And I know that's one thing that can be tricky: not knowing when you're going to experience it the most. If I have a hard day, like doing dad stuff around the house… We have three kids, 9, 6 and 5. So, it's like trying to keep up with them, you'll notice different things. As a matter of fact, one thing I think is interesting, too, when you factor in guys who might be fathers, one of the first things… Maybe it's just because I've been open with my journey about it, but the other day, we were somewhere. And my son, who's 5, when he was introducing me to some of his friends at a soccer game the other day, he's like, “Yeah, this is my dad. He has arthritis.” (laughter) 

And it's one of those things where they're aware. They could see some of the physical changes that I have. And I try not to exhibit all the limitations that might exist, you know. I want them to know, “It’s OK, we could play, we can do all these different things.” How has been living with gout? And what have you heard from some of the other guys in your support group, how it's affected them as a father? 

Gary Ho: 
The interesting thing, Pete, is that I've noticed for guys, we have a hesitancy to be known as pill poppers or people that are dependent on medication. Yet, we'll grab a beer, and we don't see that as a source of medication. Or sometimes when we get a headache, it's fine, we'll take the aspirin. But for some odd reason, when it comes to maybe allopurinol or Uloric or these maintenance medications that have very low side effects, we don't want to be known as someone that is dependent on daily medication, which is a strange thing. 

So, that's something that we've tried to overcome within our Gout Support Group of America. Men don't want to give up their man card. And they think by being needy when it comes to medicine, “I need medicine to live my life,” that's being a wimp. And honestly, that's just education. And nothing can be further from the truth. 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah, definitely. I mean, when you think about the fact that, too silently, so many men who are dealing with pain alone on a daily basis, there's nothing non-man card about that. I think it's pretty badass if we're able to soldier on every day, living with some kind of pain. 

PROMO: 
If you have arthritis or are taking care of someone who does, we’ve got information you can trust. Get tips on healthy treatments, plus news and inspirational stories. Learn all about arthritis and the resources we offer. Go to https://www.arthritis.org/.  

Pete Scalia: 
We knew that we were going to be doing this episode and posed the question online, asking people about their biggest mental, emotional or social obstacles that they've had to deal with living with arthritis. A couple of the responses we got, I wanted to share. 

There was somebody who has the handle JIAwanter, who said, “Not knowing what happened next. The unpredictability factor and hiding the physical and emotional fear that comes with it is one of the most difficult things” they’ve dealt with. And another one of our followers, Bionic RA, said, “Admitting that I need help.” And a third comment that we got, Gary, this sort of plays into what you were just saying there, from Abrewington, “That balance between it being OK to be in pain and not ‘manly’ to talk about or share my pain for fear of being labeled less than a man.” I mean, it’s got to be rewarding for you to have created this safe group for people, for guys in particular, to talk with other guys about these symptoms and know that they're not being judged for it, because that really is difficult for a lot of guys. 

Gary Ho: 
It's a huge factor. You know, men don't want be seen as weak, right? We're the ones with the club. And we're meant to go out there and look for food, and supply and look after our family. We don't want to be needy. We don't want to seem like we need help. But in fact, one of the first steps to freedom really is admitting that we have this disease, right? That was so freeing. 

When I accepted that I have gout, it was freeing. Now it's like, “OK, I have gout. What does this mean? And what do I need to do?” Because gout and I can get along. There is a way, because my rheumatologist says I can have quality of life and I can have a pain-free life. And I believe him. I have trust in my rheumatologist. “What is it going to mean for me?” And for me, it meant being open to trustworthy advice from my medical partner, professional, and following his instructions. And being patient, because it does take time to find yourself out of the woods, right? 

Pete Scalia: 
Yeah. Well, I know often on the podcast, Gary, we like to talk about three big takeaways that we come from in our conversation. What would you say your three takeaways are from this episode? 

Gary Ho: 
That's a great question. I would say the first takeaway is that, when it comes to gout, it's not your fault. Period. Full stop. That's it. It's not your fault. It's not because you're eating too much meat. It's not because you're drinking too much. Maybe. I mean, if you're drinking a case a night, maybe, but it's probably not the cause of your gout, right? So, it's not your fault. It could be genetics. It could be a number of things. So, get that out of your head. 

Secondly, if you're feeling alone and isolated, you're not alone. There are 9 million of us in America. Go find us: the Gout Support Group of America. You can find us, we have a website. We're also online on Facebook. If you find us, just answer the three questions, and then we will accept you into the support group, and you'll meet wonderful people that have journeyed with gout for many years, and there's many people that have just started the journey. People are always wanting to give back and help one another journey through this disease. 

And lastly, and I've mentioned this before, if it's over six, you need a fix. So, understand where your uric acid level is. Go ask for your doctor to look at your uric acid level, because a general blood test does not include uric acid. You have to specifically ask for that uric acid to be checked. So, if it's over six, you need a fix. 

Pete Scalia: 
I love that. I think I would agree, too. If I had to think of three things that I really took away from this that I would want our listeners to take away from, number one is being proactive. Making sure that you are taking control and, as you mentioned earlier, owning your own health journey. Making sure that if you notice that something isn't quite right, not being afraid to talk to your primary care physician, but then also to seek out maybe a specialist, a rheumatologist, someone that can help you in that journey. 

The second thing is, as you mentioned also, knowing that there are other people out there who are going through something similar, that you're not alone in this journey. I know that any sort of chronic illness like this that you're dealing with, that can seem like an invisible disease, it can feel very isolating, but it doesn't have to be. Knowing that there are support groups out there like the Gout Support Group of America, like the Arthritis Foundation, the local chapters, national groups, getting involved, and getting to know some of these other people who are going through something similar, I know has been a huge relief for me being able to talk to other people. 

And I guess the third takeaway is just knowing that you don't have to feel like you're invincible all the time. It's OK to own that sense of: “You know, there’s something that’s not quite right here.” It doesn’t make you weak. It doesn’t make you insufferable. And you’re not a burden to someone. 

Gary Ho: 
That’s right. 

Pete Scalia: 
I think it’s something else that’s important to take away. Knowing that this is something that there are options out there. They are treatable. And hopefully, there are some guys listening to us, Gary, that are going to walk away from this feeling a little empowered, saying, “You know what? I'm going to take control of this journey myself, and I’m not going to give up.” That, to me, is the biggest thing. Obviously, with the sign I have above me here in the studio, “Never Giving Up,” is definitely a message I want people to walk away with. 

Gary Ho: 
Love it. Thank you, Pete. 

Pete Scalia: 
All right. Well, Gary Ho, thanks again. And where can people find you and interact with you and the Gout Support Group of America? 

Gary Ho: 
You can find us at www.goutsupportgroup.org, or go to Facebook and look up the Gout Support Group of America, and you're going to see us, and all you do is just hit “Join,” and we'll let you in. 

Pete Scalia: 
I love it. Gary Ho, thanks. And I'm Pete Scalia here. I want to thank everybody for listening to the Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast. PSNeverGiveUp. We'll see you next time. Thanks, Gary. 

Gary Ho: 
Thank you. 

PODCAST CLOSE: 
This episode was brought to you in part by one of our dedicated partners. Our podcast is also made possible in part by individual supporters like you, whose generosity we much appreciate. The Live Yes! With Arthritis podcast is independently produced by the Arthritis Foundation. This podcast aims to help people living with arthritis and chronic pain live their best life. People like you. For a transcript and show notes, go to https://www.arthritis.org/liveyes/podcast. Subscribe and rate us wherever you get your podcasts. And stay in touch!